Heaven's Gate Members

[Tanebros]

I was just thinking about Heaven's Gate - sure, they despise creatures and possessed, they are afraid of them and do everything in their power to stop them or make humanity hate them.

... but - they're mostly humans, and as I see it - humans here are normal humans, unless possessed or a contract is formed.
So I was thinking - maybe H.G. can use people who are possessed or have formed a contract, but the 100% human top or special agents are, like... powerless?!

I was just going to advance the idea of humans having some kind of power without possession/contracts - like ancestral blood heritage or unknown circumstances, like suddenly something happens and bam - ability to freeze water or something and they retain their humanity completely(or so it seems).

So - just throwing a suggestion here. Basically it's this - Heaven's Gate needs some kind of power to back them up besides the possessed/contracted who are not safe to deal with, and so they won't be fighting a prematurely lost cause(since normal humans, like, can't fight superhumans and supernatural creatures with great powers). Maybe I'm just not seeing the full picture since we have just 2 humans up to this point - I dunno.
And that's about it.

[Reiji Shiranui]

I second this idea. Since Heaven's Gate members are currently supposedly fully human, fighting creatures with powers would be a huge pain with normal weapons (like swords and knives, guns are another story xD). Especially against giant mythical creatures like Tane up there.

So, I'm just kinda dragging a concept from another site up here. Maybe add a few magic spells into the points shop specifically for HG members? For example we can put multiple elements/strengths (strength, speed/fire, ice) out there or something and then make an ability tree of sorts. For every set number of points the HG member gets from being active, they have the option of either buying a new basic ability or advancing their mastery in the element they already have. It's quite similar to the creature/possessed/bound point system here.

^^

[Isamu Ito]

Hm. You guys do have a very valid point. XD I hadn't thought about that when the idea of Heaven's Gate popped into the equation. You're right that HG needs SOMETHING to level the playing field. Hrm.

Apparently I didn't make this real clear in the info, but HG members can be possessed or bound, however they're usually looked down on for having a contract and generally mistreat their creatures. :'D

That aside, I do like the tree set-up. What I would be concerned about, though, would be people abusing that and ditching the entire concept of contracts. Maybe limiting what type of powers are available to HG members? Or even giving them their own abilities that differ from common things you find in creatures. Like the ability to "seal" the powers of a creature of a period of time. Not something you'd really see in a creature, but something that would also give HG and edge.

So, what sort of abilities do you guys have in mind? Anything specifically? :'D And are either of you willing to work with me to develop it?

TOO LAZY TO LOG INTO ADMIN ACCOUNT. DEALWITHIT.JPG

[Reiji Shiranui]

I like that. HG can just be performing super secret underground lab magic tests experimenting on creature nullification in their little hideout thing, subsequently developing technology to temporarily weaken possessed humans/creatures enough to fight on par with them, but this effect only lasts for X number of posts?

Also, HG's 'edge' doesn't have to be magic. It can be a drug, or a pill (I'm making references to KHR's HDW pill thing Tsuna eats all the time) that can grant them superhuman abilities at a cost. Therefore making it somewhat of a 'last resort' kind of thing. Hopefully, this may balance out the contract abuse problem.

I don't have any specific abilities in mind, but personally, I think this whole thing with the 'elements' belongs more to the creatures than humans. Instead of having 21st century wizards who can summon giant snowballs you can have totally spiffy scientific advantages such as weapon upgrades and or body upgrades unique to HG members. As mentioned before, maybe a weapon imbued with a substance made to weaken a creature's powers? (D. Gray-Man innocence reference). I think HG's should abuse their technological powers a bit more :B

I can't decide though. Spells sound cool as well, and they also work better with the tree idea.

This entire post has been completely indecisive and BS-ish xD, but yea I'd be happy to help. I mean, I'm totally not already staring at Accidental Brilliance's homepage banner six hours a day.

:B

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[Raziel Och]

I know I'm sort of jumping into this discussion without necessarily having any place in it, but uh, I'll go ahead and throw around my two cents anyway. hatemelaterjustnotnow :'D

I have to admit I agree with Reiji when they said that "magical" abilities are better suited to creatures and the sort. I also have to agree with their statement about how H.G. members should take advantage of whatever technological advances they happen to have up their sleeve. Whether that is in the form of a little pill, or a magically imbued item that grants them some edge towards such and such a creature.

That way, we safely avoid having everyone running around throwing fireballs and lighting bolts at each other, while also adding some semblance of variety.

I wholeheartedly agree with having the pills--if that idea is taken into serious consideration--having some form of a drawback. That way, the H.G. folks are not overpowered nor left to the wayside with nothing at their disposal.

The items, on the other hand, are another great idea. I mean, we have to give the Heaven Gate's members something, right? These items, as Reiji pointed out, can be imbued with a substance(s), perhaps, made to weaken creatures. Or they can also grant the user specific boons (not sure how that would work, mind you).

I know I threw myself in here, but please do keep in mind that I am more than willing to help with this! Whether that is as a sounding board, or what have you! c:

[Tanebros]

Good idea about HG members boosting themselves, but that does still place them at a disadvantage since creatures can just go at it until they're tired, but HG people take the pill to keep up AND they experience drawbacks after taking it, while creatures/possessed have no drawbacks. Unless the pills - by whatever means they are made(magic or science, or both together), are really powerful.

For pill-drawback system to work balanced these pills have to boost their users greatly - then drawbacks are justified.
My own best idea is simple:

Heaven's Gate members imbune/merge powerful artifacts into their bodies, gaining strength, abilities and etc. At first the artifact's full power is dormant, and as time passes(rp posts and points, lol) the artifacts awaken and their user grows stronger... BUT - these artifacts may be powerful, however they are limited by few specialized powers. No ice, earth or gravity together - just one, or two at max(as an example).

With that said I'll be leaving the decisions in your hands guys and girls, since I'll be away and won't be able to talk to you *cries* ^__^

[Isamu Ito]

Hm.

So, for ideas so far we have...
--Pills
--Imbued items
--Tech of some sort

We don't have to limit it down to just one, guys :v

Pills, like Tane said, would have a sort of issue if there were drawbacks or a certain limit. The creatures could just wear them down and wait until the effects wore off. However, if we thought about it in the sense of like, pain meds... They last for hours, and don't have any noticeable drawback unless you abuse the dosage. Maybe the pill could like, decrease responses to pain, allowing a HG member to continue fighting through some horrible wound. Or increasing their own physical abilities like speed, strength, and reaction time?

Drawbacks could be that, if you abuse the drug there are serious health risks (as there is with any pill). it doesn't need to be anything serious. Creatures don't have drawbacks for their abilities.


Hrm. As for weapons, they could be imbued with a specific substance that harms creatures like people have been saying. Like, something all creatures are naturally allergic to or something that would cause them more pain than usual on contact, or something with more strength than usual. It could be something like a plant, that when burned, the smell of it causes a creature to weaken.

For the stronger and larger creatures, like a dragon, they could have specific items for them, like reinforced electrified nets, or larger doses of whatever causes a creature to weaken. Or, hm. Anyone else have any ideas for weapons? We could imbued them with specific elements, like electricity or fire like Tane suggested...

Anyway, I need to get ready for a fun day of festival things, so... have fun guys. Don't bother waiting for me. Toss ideas off of one another. I'll come take a look at the thread when I manage to get internet again. o3ob

[Tomoko Hashimoto]

My two cents - you know how Hellboy uses a gun that can be loaded with specific bullets that hurt certain kinds of creatures? And how Hellsing uses silver bullets, etc? Maybe they just use modern weapons specifically used for demon slaying, etc. Like on Buffy, they need a type of sword to kill this type of creature, and maybe Heaven's Gate has been "borrowing" or gotten a hold of lots of weapondry that is effective? Idek, that's how they seem to do it in movies. I support that idea, as well as giving HG a little bit of a different edge. I think it'd be interesting if HG used an outside source, as creatures usually use magic or some ability they have instristically (ie inside source).

[Raziel Och]

Truth be told, words were taken out of my mouth! All that I truly have to contribute has been said. =w=b

I'm warming up to the idea of Heaven Gate's folks having pills that assist them in combat by giving them certain boons. I'm also really liking the concept of them having weapons/items that have characteristics/bullets/whatever that affect such and such a creature.

If it isn't too soon to say so, I think we're really on to something here.

I have to agree with the things Rai pointed out, again. =w=

Mainly on the topic of the pills notion that has been tossed around. I think the concept of them lasting hours with no severe drawbacks is the way to go, especially given the fact that creature/possessed can use their abilities with no repercussions.

I think the only thing left to discuss about them is exactly how long they last (I suppose in this circumstance, it would be x number of posts?), and if the pill(s) imbue more than one "ability".

Uhm... I'm not the best with these kinds of discussions, I'll admit, but what if the pills granted the taker two heightened traits--you know, things like increased speed, strength, endurance, whatever? That's the only thing I really have to throw out there. dOuO;

As for the weapons... well, Kat pretty much said it all.

Now, assuming this doesn't completely derail the conversation, does all this different weaponry (and whatever they may be imbued with) pose the concept of certain HG members being skilled in killing such and such a creature? Like say for instance, a HG member who primarily uses a gun with silver bullets is better suited/skilled at fighting creatures whose weaknesses is silver? I'm more curious than anything. o3ob

[Imogen & Rakshasa]

Alright--! Long and convoluted suggestion time.

A few questions to ask yourself;

A) What degree is their resolve?
B) Their morality?
C) What are they willing to do to achieve their goal?
D) Is corruption a la "the ends justify the means" to their goal possible?


I debated them and came up with a few.

Heaven's Gate, judging by the name itself, is based off the ideal of religious cleansing. They find creatures to be abominations and evil, so they seek to destroy them (think: Holy Crusade). So, it would only make sense that they would create and maintain a function which enables them to destroy them effectively; look for examples in faiths and walks of religion. Some channel them, some destroy them, it's all based around humans controlling it to a degree. Spirit Shamans, Witch Doctors, Exorcists, Monks, Priests, it's a widespread thing in life. This being said, rather than channeling the power of what they believe in their faith? This can be from anything to a deity to a cause, they belief and their faith is their power, let alone creatures.

For the second part of this, it could branch off in another way. They found a way to nullify, weaken or ever purge the life of a creature in a bound human (link this to exorcism). Perhaps again, through faith, through a machine, or perhaps both. However, I don't see this being a very safe option- I don't see it working without seriously injuring or even killing the host. This could be a milestone of things debated within the community; "This could end this terror and the creatures, but is it worth the life of humans?" Moral gray area, wahey!


This leads up to my second point in regards to pills. Why, instead of pills, go under a psychiatric/physical conditioning or treatment? If they are against the paranormal, perhaps they are more scientific rather than faith-based. Through adding enhancements to the human body (not essentially robot parts, but enhancing the muscle strength of a human by giving lean fiber tissue from a Bengal Tiger for example) to make them stronger or more adaptable in a fight? If not something like that, perhaps they created an artificial power source that once was a spirit or a fae, making a partially human-made creature that can be bound to the HG members, except dormant and completely under their control. It could be maintained through drugs (pills) that stabilize them, perhaps it even starts to damage them after awhile (IE: organ failure, skin legions, insomnia, schizophrenia-- psychotic effects since their bodies cannot handle the souls). This is a great direction to go if you want corruption in the name of what they deem good.


And last but not least, weapons and tech. Great scientific route, and it does improve human adaptability. Implants, techs, weapons, perhaps imbued with a way to damage demons specifically. This is a simple, clear-cut way to do it. No corruption, no convoluted secret, just special weapons that make humans stronger. Perhaps incorporating them to fit religious themes could be a neat idea too (a spear that pierces demon flesh and homes in on targets called Gungnir).


Personally, and no offense to anyone who suggested it, avoid giving HG direct demons/creatures simply because of the direct hypocrisy it will generate. If you want to play that angle, be more subtle about it like with what I gave you. I much prefer a thinly-laced conspiracy beneath a dark scheme overall than a direct fight-fire-with-fight scenerio. In the end, this is all about how you wish to play this group and their true intentions.

Perhaps, even going another step further, the humans they use are seen as pawns for their ends. Maybe they incorporate a bit of everything people are suggesting? They eliminate the creatures and demons AND they are test subjects and pawns to their will.

Nothing is 100% good and evil, it's a delusion in our society. Play that angle. Everything is gray.


Something to mull over, chaps.

[Reiji Shiranui]

I wanted to quote all Rakko said up there, because that basically sums it all up. The point I've been trying to get across is, they should be taking advantage of whatever we have right now in the modern world. I mean, we have firearms and really good psychiatric treatments that actually exist (I think...).

So, instead of even letting HG members have creatures (which defeat the very purpose of having two sides, since HG are people who are STRONGLY against anything of the sort) they should have super awesome top secret technology. Like an underground project with cool abbreviations.

I can absolutely help with the ability tree making, since I believe HG members should not immediately get super-powers. They should start with the basics (like... small enhancements in physical human abilities) and work up through showing activity and willingness to post.

[Isamu Ito]

Mmkay! So I think we got a pretty good general direction, right?

I do like the idea of some sort of experiment being preformed. It gives a fun sort of plot to go on for HG, at least. Give the members their own sort of moral dilemmas or what not to work with. However, I do think that those 'experimented' on in a severe way (such as the artificial power source or even more severe conditioning/implants/whatnot) should be somewhat limited. At least for now until we can see how well it works out. And that way, too, we can slowly add more of them to the HG ranks, like it's becoming more and more of a popular thing.

I also agree with Seth that HG members should get their upgrades and such through the point shop like how everyone else needs to. It makes things relatively more fair.

The weapons thing does also seem like a real nice idea, since they are focused on hunting the creatures. It also allows for people to be focused and more specialized in what they hunt, like in the question Sammy brought up. Someone could be more focused on fighting with silver bullets and having a wider range of knowledge on creatures that deal with silver over someone who deals with something else.

In order to allow people a wide range of freedom with their characters, maybe give them the option to get implants of varying sorts (in a weapon to make it more effective against creatures, or in themselves to strengthen them), under-go conditioning, whatnot through the point shop. Of course, there's always the ability to start out with something at character creation, but in order to upgrade or get the stronger things (maybe such as a physical implant) it can only be bought through the point shop?

Just trying to see different ways we could incorporate the different ideas together.